City Fan

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Posts by City Fan

• 
  125

  Making 607 crumble

  by ellderwho in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during my eight month long study with "elder bob" (moms husband) we have batted around many subjects to say the least.

  but the one that really stands out is the dreaded date of 607 bc.

  im sorry i just will not let up with this date, and him having to prove it can stand.

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  City Fan

  Point is scholar, you were asked for some of this 'abundant' evidence first. As usual in these kind of threads you resort to asking us the same questions before answering your own.

  All you have done is given me a date for the first capture of Jerusalem. Where is the secular evidence for this date?

  If you look back at my previous posts you'll notice I said this:

  The Babylonian Chronicle gives an exact date for the first capture of Jerusalem as 2nd Adar 7th year of Nebuchadrezzar (598-597) which equates to 15/16 March 597BCE.

  You also managed to avoid all three of my questions in my previous two posts.

  3 pages of posts and we're still waiting for you to give any secular evidence to support 607. And you talk about 'smoke and mirrors'!

  CF.
• 
  125

  Making 607 crumble

  by ellderwho in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during my eight month long study with "elder bob" (moms husband) we have batted around many subjects to say the least.

  but the one that really stands out is the dreaded date of 607 bc.

  im sorry i just will not let up with this date, and him having to prove it can stand.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  City Fan

  Scholar,

  You simply do not know what you are talking about. The controversy over the precise year namely 586 or 587 is an enduring and has nothinf to do with calendrical problems

  Please enlighten us then. What in your view is the real reason for the dating as either 586 or 587?

  So far in all your posts in this thread you've failed to back any statements up with facts. All you've said is that Babylon fell in 539 (we know) and from that 607 is calculated. That is a long way removed from your assertion that there is adundant secular support for 607.

  You said to simwitness

  I gave you a starting point then if you are honest then give me a starting point for 586 or 587.

  I've given you a starting point of 15/16 March 597 BCE (the first capture of Jerusalem). From this date we can also calculate forward to get 539 BCE. It is now up to you to provide some secular evidence for 607.

  CF.
• 
  125

  Making 607 crumble

  by ellderwho in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during my eight month long study with "elder bob" (moms husband) we have batted around many subjects to say the least.

  but the one that really stands out is the dreaded date of 607 bc.

  im sorry i just will not let up with this date, and him having to prove it can stand.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  City Fan

  Scholar

  The controversy over the precise year namely 586 or 587 is an enduring and has nothinf to do with calendrical problems as you assert.

  That makes no sense at all.

  Once again, please give us an example of some of the abundant secular evidence that supports 607. For example, can you provide some secular evidence that allows the dating for the destruction of Jerusalem in 607?

  the Society's methodology consists of three stages and avoids many of these difficulties that concern scholarship.

  Could you also give an example of one of these many difficulties faced by modern scholarship?
• 
  125

  Making 607 crumble

  by ellderwho in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during my eight month long study with "elder bob" (moms husband) we have batted around many subjects to say the least.

  but the one that really stands out is the dreaded date of 607 bc.

  im sorry i just will not let up with this date, and him having to prove it can stand.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  City Fan

  Scholar,

  I have provided evidence for 507 begiining with Stage One namely the Nabonidus Chronicle will clearly attests to the date for the Fall of Babylon. I will not comment on Stage 2 or 3 until the contrary position is stated.

  That isn't evidence for 607. It's evidence for the date of the fall of Babylon. Please provide an example of the 'abundant' secular evidence for 607.

  Your previous post suggests that you can't find any.
• 
  125

  Making 607 crumble

  by ellderwho in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during my eight month long study with "elder bob" (moms husband) we have batted around many subjects to say the least.

  but the one that really stands out is the dreaded date of 607 bc.

  im sorry i just will not let up with this date, and him having to prove it can stand.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  City Fan

  Simwitness

  I thought the K.I.S.S. thread was excellent as it disproved 607 using the society's own literature.

  Scholar,

  You've been shown time and time again by members of this board why using the "was it 586 or 587" argument does not support your point of view. Why do you insist on repeating this unscholarly reasoning?

  Apparently there cannot be much secular evidence for the traditional chronology because according to the the site you recommended there is uncertainty between 586 or 587. So much for the abundance of secular evidence.

  A true scholar would know that the uncertainty of the date is nothing to do with secular evidence. Once again I'll go through it with you. I'll try to keep it simple:

  The uncertainty arises because the bible is not specific about which calendar to use for the verses in 2 Kings 25 and Jeremiah 52. The Babylonian New Year was in Nisan and the Jewish New Year was Tishri. Which one should be used for these verses?

  The Babylonian Chronicle gives an exact date for the first capture of Jerusalem as 2nd Adar 7th year of Nebuchadrezzar (598-597) which equates to 15/16 March 597BCE. To calculate the final destruction of the temple we have to use the verses above.

  2 Kings 25:3,4 says the temple was destroyed on the 7th of Av/Abu. Using the Babylonian Nisan New Year calendar this would be 25 August 587BCE. Using the Jewish Tishri New Year calendar the month of Av would be the following year 15 August 586BCE. (The 10 day difference is because the Babylonian calendar had alternating months of 30 and 29 days).

  So the only discrepancy is because scholars are unsure which calendar was being used, the Jewish or Babylonian. If you are a 'scholar' I can't believe you don't know this.

  Anyway, what about some of the abundant secular evidence for 607 we've been waiting for?
• 
  125

  Making 607 crumble

  by ellderwho in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during my eight month long study with "elder bob" (moms husband) we have batted around many subjects to say the least.

  but the one that really stands out is the dreaded date of 607 bc.

  im sorry i just will not let up with this date, and him having to prove it can stand.

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  2. 
  3. 
• 

  City Fan

  Willy says

  If in your next post you fail to provide ANY secular sources indicating Jerusalem fell in 607, we can but only conclude that you are full-o'-crap!

  We're still waiting.....
• 
  125

  Making 607 crumble

  by ellderwho in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during my eight month long study with "elder bob" (moms husband) we have batted around many subjects to say the least.

  but the one that really stands out is the dreaded date of 607 bc.

  im sorry i just will not let up with this date, and him having to prove it can stand.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  City Fan

  And have we found any secular proof for 607 yet scholar???
• 
  29

  666 or 616??

  by metatron in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  last night, on the discovery channel, they interviewed a researcher who analyzed a scrap of papyrus that recorded revelation.. he contended that the critical passage of the "number of the beast" actually read 616 in greek, not 666. he tried to apply.

  this to caligula thru numerology.. i had never heard of this variant reading before.. .

  metatron

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  City Fan

  I may add to my post when I get back from my football charity dinner.
• 
  29

  666 or 616??

  by metatron in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  last night, on the discovery channel, they interviewed a researcher who analyzed a scrap of papyrus that recorded revelation.. he contended that the critical passage of the "number of the beast" actually read 616 in greek, not 666. he tried to apply.

  this to caligula thru numerology.. i had never heard of this variant reading before.. .

  metatron

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  City Fan

  The Hebrew spelling of Nero Caesar was NRWN QSR. Gematria was used to represent letters as numbers and NRWN QSR = 666

  Nero Caesar transliterated from Latin gives a gematria number of 616, so a Hebrew spelling gives 666 and a Latin spelling gives 616.

  I've never seen it used to describe Caligula, the 666/616 variant is proof that the number referred to Nero.
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  125

  Making 607 crumble

  by ellderwho in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  during my eight month long study with "elder bob" (moms husband) we have batted around many subjects to say the least.

  but the one that really stands out is the dreaded date of 607 bc.

  im sorry i just will not let up with this date, and him having to prove it can stand.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  City Fan

  Scholar,

  No you haven't. You've provided one piece of secular evidence for 539, and then biblical evidence (based on biblical interpretation) for 607.

  You said there was plenty of secular evidence for 607 and I'm still waiting for an example.

  For example, is there any secular evidence that allows for the fall of Jerusalem to have occurred in 607 BCE?

  CF.